Thursday, April 2, 2009

Revelation--Discussion II

Please read Revelation 13-22, concentrating on the last four chapters. Again, cite a verse or two from this section that show particularly well the beauties of this book or that show how difficult the book is to understand and interpret.

22 comments:

jones said...

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

I understand that Noah's son Japheth had a son named Magog (Genesis 10:2) Ezekiel presents Gog as a leader of forces against Israel (Ezekiel 38-39)but why these individuals?

Why is there only 4 lines about the defeating of Satan? Is that not one of Christianities big objectives? You would think that something of this importance would be given more thatn four lines.

Their punishment of being thrown into a fiery lake. Where is the colrs, sights, smells here. That a disappointing ending.

Jade Cowan said...

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:12-15).

One of the most notable passages of the entire bible, I think this section of revelations depicts a powerful image of God judging the living and the dead. When John talks about he judging the dead, does he mean the physically dead, spiritually dead, or both the physically and spiritually dead? Does it matter? Since they were already dead once, why are they judged again? In this sense, Revelations becomes a very confusing book.

amerkel said...

Annie Merkel

Revelation 20:1-3 "Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years were ended. After that he must be loosed for a little while."

I find these verses both beautiful and difficult to understand. First, I find it beautiful because it actually describes a situation that is positive. In the early chapters of Revelation, it seems very unpromising and dark; these later chapters seems a little brighter. Capturing the devil is an accomplishment!

Furthermore, I find these verses difficult because I just don't understand why the devil must be released after a thousand years. The devil is evil, and should be locked up forever. That's what everyone wants. So why must the devil be released again? He gives us no explanation why the devil must be let loose - it just doesn't make sense.

amerkel said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Louis Brown said...

Revelations 21:10-21 "The holy city of Jerusalem coming down out of heaven...having the glory of God...was pure gold, transparent as glass."

I do not understand how the Lord asks that his people be humble and meek, for they cannot reach the kingdom of heaven otherwise, worship no false images made of gold, for they must only worship the Lord, and be presented with a city of gold as the temple of the Lord.

I believe that a mud hut with a thatched straw roof would be better, for the grace of the Lord would give it that otherworldly shine, for the meek and humble to accept, or are they really to inherit the riches of the world that they were asked to shun?

And why would the Lord reward them in such a manner, with them receiving the riches of the earth along with eternal life granted by him? To me at the moment of resurrection all who survived should be blessed with the grace of the saints, those who forsook such finery while they lived, and all would live in peace not wearing the things they were taught not to covet in the previous life.

t kenny said...

I found the entire twenty-first chapter to be beautiful.
Revelation 21:22, "But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple." Now that is beautiful. He will be right there with us so there is no need for a temple.

The Tenney book was a great help with understanding parts of Revelation. I do however have a question about chapter twenty. Why does God release satan after 1,000 years of peace? I don't expect anyone to have an answer to this question. I think chapter 38 of the book of Job is helpful in dealing with Revelation. Some things only God knows. Who are we to question His actions. In the end all will be known. Until that day, parts of Revelation will remain a mystery.

Anonymous said...

Zach Anderson

Revelation 20:1-3
"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God."

This is a beautiful idea for the future the beginning of revelation can at times seem like gloom, but this sums up the hope that comes from the end times. I think this makes this a beautiful book because of the hope of the end. The scary ideas of the beginning always make the headlines but the hope of heaven on earth is a beautiful thing.

bjohnson said...

Brian Johnson

I think that Revelation chapter 17: 1-8 is an example of how the book can be confusing.

It speaks of a whore and beast who ruled caused calamity to come upon the earth.

I think this is just one example of the many vivid images in the book that are oft portayed but are difficult to understand. What do the women and whore represent? And what is the significance of the other symbols such as the decorations and colors?

I suppose if you understand them they become more beautiful, but until you can it is very difficult to appreciate them.

Jenna said...

Chapter 14 speaks of the 144 thousand that will 'rest in their labors and their works will follow them.'

But didn't Jesus die for us so that we could receive God's love and care? We are all sinners and that is why Jesus came and died for us. Right? But now Rev. is saying that only 144 thousand will make it. I find this completely complicated and confusing.

Eric said...

Revelations 19:11-13 seem to be a little difficult in that you have a rider on a white horse whos called Faithful and True, but a few lines down it says that he has a name on him that no one knows but himself. It later goes on to tell of him, that he judges and makes war and wears a robe that has been dripped in blood.

These few lines seem to be a little confusing in that why does he only know his name and why would a man who is know as faithful and true want to make war? Unless that war is refering to the battle between good and evil.

Eric Bengs

A_Imberi said...

Revelation 21:5-7
“Behold, I make all things new.” Then he said, “Write these words down, for they are trustworthy and true.” He said to me, “They are accomplished. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give a gift from the spring of life-giving water. The victor will inherit these gifts, and I shall be his God, and he will be my son.”

These two verses show the beautiful nature of the book of Revelation. In the midst of such difficult material these verses stand out as a ray of hope and guidance.

Amanda Imberi

Anonymous said...

Revelations 21:1-2 "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

The detail in this passage makes the entire chapter beautiful. It is showing the rebirth and what God will do in the end of time.

Jon Adam

Anonymous said...

Revelation 21:3,4
And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

I think this is a beautiful passage. It assures us that in Heaven we will be in perfect joy with God. There will be no more sorrow or worrying. Instead there will only be joy and happiness. This passage would have been enough for the believers at the time to feel the worth of standing up to the persecution because they know what will come afterwards.

John Rawerts

Anonymous said...

The Apocalypse 19:2-4

“For true and just are his judgments, who hath judged the great harlot which corrupted the earth with her fornication and hat revenged the blood of his servants, at her hands.

And again they said: Alleluia. and her smoke ascendeth for ever and ever.

And the four and twenty ancients and the four living creatures fell down and adored god that sitteth upon the throne saying: Amen, Alleluia.”

What martyrs said at the beginning of the Apocalypse was that they were waiting for God to take revenge upon those who had treated them so badly and in this verse there hopes are finally answered

Joe Adam

Anonymous said...

Revelation 21:1-2
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and earth were passed away; and there was no more sea... behold the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
I guess this isn't too confusing, just differnt than what I have always heard. I thought that we would be moving to heaven, and live there with God. This makes it sound like God will be coming to new earth, that won't have seas, but there should be enough water in the stream of life for everyone.
I guess it also says that God will be creating a new heaven, but if he is going to dwell on new earth with his people, who will live in new heaven?
Jon Hepola

Nick said...

Every chapter in the last 12 chapters has something that is either difficult for us to grasp and understand or is very beautiful. You have stories that deal with the beast and the woman and many different beasts. That is something that I think is hard to put a grasp on because there are not many seven headed beasts walking around.

Another part of Revelation that is very difficult for me to understand is the 7 plagues. Each of the plagues make the people suffer a lot.

A part of Revelation that is very beautiful would be when Jesus comes down from heaven and triumphs in a final battle. That is a very beautiful thought.

Anonymous said...

Jesse Peck

I would say it is an understatement that i have difficulty understanding revelations. I could pick out any passage to say it is particularly difficult. In any case the bit i found most perplexing is

Rev. 17:8
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to ascend from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the inhabitants of the earth, whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will be amazed when they see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.

I think the part of this passage that really confuses me where it says things like "it was and is not and is to come" i have no idea what that is talking about. I think it might be saying that it is not stable in reference to time, but really i would not be surprised by a different explanation.

Then there is the bit about the book from the beginning of time. this sounds as though god made a list and if your on it you are in, if not the bouncer not only does not let you but you get tossed some where bad. Then again it does not have to mean that i could be happy with a different explanation for this as well.

I think what I find difficult is that there seems to be many different ways to interpret revelation, but I have no idea of which way seems better or even which way i might like it better.

Anonymous said...

Ruth Wilson

I've always liked the story of the two witnesses. They would be such a thorn to the king of the world at that time. And besides, how cool would it be to see 'a breath of life from God enter them,and... terror strike those who saw them.'? These would be amazing times to live in, but as amazing as they would be, I think I would pass. Too much hardship. I think all the death would break me.

bcnewton said...

Brett Newton

Revelations 22:7
"behold, i am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book."

This is a very telling verse that when I first read it gave me a feeling of faith, because it speaks to those that follow his word. Those that do will be blessed. A very simple message to understand but yet one that holds a bit of mystery with it as well.

The not understanding comes upon the point when he says that he is coming soon. When is soon? Tomorrow, 2010, or another 4000 years. Its almost impossible to understand what is meant by this time statement.

Ultimately, we must live our lives as if he is coming tomorrow and do his word in every day works.

Tim Baustian said...

How about...

Revelation 21:2
"I also saw the holy city, a new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

I am sure this is a very powerful verse, and uses very beautiful language. But I read it again and again, and I can't quite make out the exact meaning. The beauty of the language used is what can sometimes make it very diffiult, as it doesn't exactly say what you would hope it would say to make it easier to understand. Many of the verses in chapters 21 and 22 are like this, having beautiful language, but sometimes unclear meassages.

Anonymous said...

Revelations chapter 17.

For me this whole chapter is extremely difficult to understand. It is full of symbolism and the number "7" and the number "10". It is scary talking about beasts that have seven heads and ten horns. I am going to ask my minister to try to explain this chapter to me, because I don't understand what all of the symbolism means. It is a confusing chapter in a confusing book.

smerkel said...

Sam Merkel

Revelation 20:1-3 "Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years were ended. After that he must be loosed for a little while."

I find this verse beautiful because the devil is captured and the evil should begin to disapear, but I find it difficult too because the devil is let go. To me the reason behind that is that the Lord captured the devil and wanted the message to get across to him that he could do it again. The Lord is giving the devil another chance it seems.